Soldat CTF League Forums ~ Archive Forum Index
Author Message

<  Poll Forum  ~  Should the default map be changed?

Do you believe that the default (tiebreak) map should be changed?

Yes, choose a new map  
47%
  [ 34 ]  47%
 
No, keep ctf_Laos as the tiebreak map  
52%
  [ 37 ]  52%
 

Total Votes : 71
Suowarrior
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:11 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 28
Maya, Voland, Ruins, Steel and Division. I prefer sticking with laos but if you guys really wanna change default map it should be equal to everyone not just symmetrical. For example Voland... I know many who love it but I know also as many who hate it. So In my view it couldn't be default. About the map suggestion, I vote for Maya2 cos its pretty much like a laos and I think no one really hate it... these five goes in this order Maya, Steel, Division, Voland, Ruins.

_________________
#Apostate @ Quakenet
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Amigo
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:12 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 103 Location: Finland
xurich duud..

Almost every pro clan knows, that Bravo has advantage on Laos.
Atleast in Asy we ALWAYS chose bravo on Laos. Why?

The answer is simple, theres a spray hole in alpha base, where you can simply spray the enemies. That makes it a slight advantage for bravo team. But if some people think, that Alpha has advantage on Laos, I think its fair map then :p

_________________
<xurich> If I had a sister, I wouldn't be a virgin right now.
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
_Mancer_
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:42 am Reply with quote
Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 50
Nitro wrote:
I want B2b back Sad


Fuck yeah man! Bring back the B2b!

_________________
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
mar77a
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:44 am Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 117 Location: Argentina
The new b2b in 1.4.2 would be the best option in my opinion and im sure xurich can confirm that with an (un)biased opinion.

_________________
SNAG

20:03 <+ouchy`> i usually put my hands in my underpants
20:03 <+ouchy`> before important matches
20:03 <+ouchy`> warm them up
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
xurich
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:33 am Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 271 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
The new B2b is definitely an improvement over the current one in terms of being even, but it's still not perfect, with Alpha still retaining a slight height advantage over Bravo.

Hopefully we can convince Avarax to make a few more changes before the next version is released. If it can be made more even, it would be a great new default map. It really only needs a couple of minor tweaks. Even as it stands, it looks to promise good game play (I haven't been able to test it with other players yet).

Amigo wrote:
The answer is simple, theres a spray hole in alpha base, where you can simply spray the enemies. That makes it a slight advantage for bravo team. But if some people think, that Alpha has advantage on Laos, I think its fair map then :p

Each side has its advantages and disadvantages. Alpha has a smaller base which helps to compensate for the spray hole, as it makes escaping from the base with the flag more difficult. I agree with you that Laos is a pretty balanced map, and while I would personally like to see a new map as the default (mainly for the freshness factor), I won't be very disappointed if we end up sticking with Laos.
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Cwaniak
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:00 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Poland
so Snakebite will be fair for me Razz I want Snakebite

_________________


<<<-----------------CRAFTY!!!---------->>> xD
View user's profile Send private message
ramirez
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 310 Location: Finland
I think there should be 3 default maps. Before you shoot me, listen me out. I think the problem with current setup is that Laos can't be picked since it's pre-determined as 3rd map. I think it should be pickable. I think any map should be pickable. But it'd suck if you played Laos twice a clanwar, so I think it'd be neat if there were 3 tiebreaker maps, such as:
#1: Laos
#2: Ruins
#3: Conquest

Say that clan A would be Death2 and clan B would pick B2b. Tiebreaker would be Laos. But what if clan A picked Laos instead? Then the tiebreaker would be the next map in the list. That is, Ruins would be played if required. Likewise, if clan A picked Laos, and clan B picked Ruins, Conquest would be played.

I don't think it's too complicated, and wouldn't rule out one single map (which might give an advantage/disadvantage to certain clans if they specialize in that map, or suck in it, since it can't be picked). The 3 maps I said were just an example, I think that the tiebreaker maps should be the most symmetric maps where no team has a clear advantage over another team.

_________________
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
aost91
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 04 Aug 2006 Posts: 55
i actually like that idea

_________________
View user's profile Send private message
xurich
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:51 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 271 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
ramirez wrote:
(which might give an advantage/disadvantage to certain clans if they specialize in that map, or suck in it, since it can't be picked).

To go along with what you're saying:
Suppose that Clan A chose B2b (and won) and Clan B chose Maya (and won). Also suppose that Clan A is horrible at Laos. You're saying that the problem with this is that Clan A has a disadvantage because the tie breaker cannot be chosen and Clan A will most likely lose.

However, what you're suggesting doesn't really seem to solve the problem. What if Clan A is also horrible at the next map in the line (using your example, Ruins)? They are still stuck being unable to choose the tie breaker and they are still in no better position to win it. It will likely only encourage Clan B to choose Laos in the hope of having two maps that it knows Clan A has little chance of winning.

Or even if Clan A is GREAT at Ruins. Unless Clan B chooses Laos as its map (which it is unlikely to do because it knows that it will lead to a tie breaker where Clan A is skilled), Clan A will still have to play Laos either way, whether as the first map or the third map.

This idea basically makes Clan B more powerful by granting to it the ability to choose the tie breaker map, which is not a good idea at all in my opinion. The tie breaker must be static (whether for all season or even before a single match) so that both clans know what to expect should the first two maps end in stalemate. Clan B should not have the power to decide it all.

It's an interesting idea to make game play more dynamic, but I see it as causing more problems than anything else.
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
ramirez
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:04 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 310 Location: Finland
xurich wrote:
ramirez wrote:
(which might give an advantage/disadvantage to certain clans if they specialize in that map, or suck in it, since it can't be picked).

To go along with what you're saying:
Suppose that Clan A chose B2b (and won) and Clan B chose Maya (and won). Also suppose that Clan A is horrible at Laos. You're saying that the problem with this is that Clan A has a disadvantage because the tie breaker cannot be chosen and Clan A will most likely lose.

That's not what I meant, it's the other way around really. I didn't mean that the advantage/disadvantage shows when the tiebreaker is played, I meant that it shows BEFORE it's played. A clan who is great at a tiebreaker map can be at a disadvantage because they can't pick their strong map at all. For example say that Equinox was the tiebreaker map. During SCTFL9 we picked Equinox a lot during freeplay. I am willing to bet that if it was tb during SCTFL9 and we couldn't have picked it, we would've lost or tied more matches. And vice-versa, if another clan sucks in Equinox, they have an advantage because the match can end in 2 maps, without the clan who is strong in Equinox even given a chance to pick their strong map. It can't be helped if some clans are better/worse in the tiebreaker map, whatever it is, because SOME map HAS to be played, but at the very least a clan should be able to pick any map, and not be restricted of their choice just because that map is a tiebreaker map. This is especially true when the tiebreaker map is ALWAYS the same. For example in gather this isn't so much of a problem since the tiebreaker map is randomized, but that approach can't really be used in SCTFL.

Quote:
However, what you're suggesting doesn't really seem to solve the problem. What if Clan A is also horrible at the next map in the line (using your example, Ruins)? They are still stuck being unable to choose the tie breaker and they are still in no better position to win it. It will likely only encourage Clan B to choose Laos in the hope of having two maps that it knows Clan A has little chance of winning.

I never meant that a clan should be able to pick the tiebreaker map. It's obvious that it's going to be some predetermined map, but a clan should always be given the freedom of choosing any map on their own turn. It's true that if the clans know each other very well and clan B knows that clan A sucks in both two first tiebreaker maps, they'll choose the first one. However let's face the fact, every single clan out there will play the tb maps and train in them so they won't suck in them that much. If you have two equal skilled clans, there won't be situations like this for sure. Except maybe in rare cases. Also, I'm pretty sure that most clans pick a map they know they are strong at, not necessarily an uncertain map to try their luck if the other clan happened to suck in it this time.

Quote:
Or even if Clan A is GREAT at Ruins. Unless Clan B chooses Laos as its map (which it is unlikely to do because it knows that it will lead to a tie breaker where Clan A is skilled), Clan A will still have to play Laos either way, whether as the first map or the third map.

This never was an issue. But at least clan A can choose any map they want when it's their time to choose! That's all what this is about. The freedom to choose their own map on their own turn. If they want to play Laos, they should be able to pick it, and not only play it as tiebreaker. The reason for 2nd and 3rd tiebreaker is ONLY so one map won't be played twice. It'd be stupid if clan A picked Laos, clan B picked Ruins, and then Laos would be played again as tiebreaker.

Quote:
This idea basically makes Clan B more powerful by granting to it the ability to choose the tie breaker map, which is not a good idea at all in my opinion. The tie breaker must be static (whether for all season or even before a single match) so that both clans know what to expect should the first two maps end in stalemate. Clan B should not have the power to decide it all.

You make it sound like clan B could choose any map they wanted, while basically they only have a choice between TWO maps.. Which are predetermined. It's true that the clan who picks the second map has a slight advantage because they can tactic whether to change the tiebreaker map to the next map in the list or not. However you're forgetting one very important fact here, doing so risks a lot. If clan B decides to "switch" to the next map in the tiebreaker list, they do it by sacrificing their potentially stronger map, and this might be a very good thing for clan A. I think that naturally most clans rather pick the map they're good at for sure, and pretty much every clan will train for the tb maps, so I doubt that many clans will have them as their first priority picks. And let's remember that clans can play against each other twice during freeplay, so both have this very slight "advantage". Actually I think it's a nice little add of depth in the map choosing strategy; By sacrificing your strongest map, which the other clan has most likely played less (since it isn't pre-known), you can instead pick the next tiebreaker map in the list, which the other clan has played a lot for almost sure, so in case it goes to the tiebreaker you get another map that you know (but let's remember that the other clan knows all the tb maps as well, so they won't completely suck in them. Using a tactic like this would be very risky).

Quote:
It's an interesting idea to make game play more dynamic, but I see it as causing more problems than anything else.

It might complicate things a bit, but I think it might be worth of giving a shot.

_________________
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger

Display posts from previous:  

All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 4 of 4
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Post new topic

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum