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Ouchek
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:28 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 738 Location: France
Today I was playing a cw against sob, when one of their member (pisi) got banned from the server by battle eye two times.
The ban message was the following : BattlEye Server: SoB|Pisi : Corrupted memory #0

Since I didn't know what it meant I asked DS to ask the BE developper.
It seems that pisi was most likely cheating although it could be caused by a virus [but the chances are VERY low apparently]

So if this kind of problems occur in playoffs what are we going to do since as I said it's mostly likely cheating (the problem is we can't be 100% sure if its a hack or some virus).

I would personally say to prevent some players from hacking we should post an anouncement, hence make a new rule saying :

" Any players banned from a server by battle eye with {Corrupted memory #0} is banned from the entiere playoffs."

Well just find a better way to say it if you want it to be added, and by the way any other message by BE with hack in it, should get the person banned.

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DragonSlayer
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:33 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 1114 Location: Finland
Apparently "corrupted memory #0" means that Soldat.exe memory is different from the original. BE has a general hack detection right now and it's not able to detect specific hacks yet so that's as clear as the message gets. Now, it COULD be caused by something else than a hack but I don't find that very likely.

So the question is, what is our policy on this? Will we believe it's a hack causing this? Obviously no hacker is going to admit it was a hack. Are we going to ban players from the league if this occurs (by the way, Pisi is, as far as I know, the first person to get banned) or what?

I think we should ban players if this occurs. There's a chance something else causes it (a virus, corrupted memory and so on) but personally I think that's unlikely and if it was a virus or corrupted memory or something like that, what are the chances that Soldat would even work?

So yeah, I think we should ban players who get banned by BE for other reasons than not having updated your Soldat. However, I think we should only ban those who get banned in SCTFL matches since there's that small chance something else is causing the ban. This way we ensure that no one hacks in SCTFL matches and that the chance that they get banned for wrong reasons is as small as possible.

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poop
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:29 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 1029 Location: USA
um, unless you are 100% sure that this means he is hacking, I dont think we should ban him. Especially considering the thousands of other bugs in soldat, im pretty there could b e a problem with battleeye which bans people for some reason other than hacking.

If someone is banned for something related to battleye, take the demo and look at it ourselves. If there is something going on related to hacks then there is a chance we will notice it in a demo. If we see no difference in the demo, than banning is incorrect. It is worst to ban innocent people than to not ban guilty ones.

I have noticed battleeye being quite weird in terms of who it bans. For example, we played a scrim against war on one u13 server for 4 rounds, and my teammate messiah was not banned for not updating his battleeye. Then right after we go to a different server (u13 also) and he was banned for not updating.

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DragonSlayer
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:52 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 1114 Location: Finland
Quote:
I have noticed battleeye being quite weird in terms of who it bans. For example, we played a scrim against war on one u13 server for 4 rounds, and my teammate messiah was not banned for not updating his battleeye. Then right after we go to a different server (u13 also) and he was banned for not updating.

It's not BE being weird. Either the server had BE disabled or it wasn't the newest server which came out at the same time as the BE update.

Anyway, I actually think that watching demos might be the best solution since everyone must take a demo in playoffs. However, that basically means if something happens, they have to stop playing until we have reached our conclusion because we can't let a player who could possibly hack continue playing.

I think that BE is trustworthy and I already told this to ouchek earlier but some people in AE (myself included) have been suspicious of SoB before. It's not like it's banning people constantly and I'm sure it's not any bug. But like mentioned, people could get banned for wrong cause and as unlikely as it is, watching demos isn't such a bad solution. I just hope no one is dumb enough to hack in playoffs.


Last edited by DragonSlayer on Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Ouchek
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:53 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 738 Location: France
Maybe because the server was not updated.

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xurich
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:06 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 271 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I agree with Poop that we should not ban the person automatically just because BattleEye kicks him or her. We have always gone on a case-to-case basis for each ban situation, and I think that it should be no different this time.

Soldat's anti-cheat protection hasn't exactly been bug-free in the past, and I'm sure that nearly every player has been the victim of wrongful cheat kicks in the past, so I don't believe that we should put our full trust in a potentially unreliable system, at least until we've had more time to inspect it for bugs.

For now, I think that when a BE kick occurs, we should ask for the demos and inspect them ourselves. Any actual cheating should be readily noticeable.
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poop
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 1029 Location: USA
Quote:
It's not BE being weird. Either the server had BE disabled or it wasn't the newest server which came out at the same time as the BE update.


It was the same server though (U13), which is actually updated by flieslikeabrick only. Im pretty sure he either updated all his servers or none. Is Battleeye disabled a soldat.ini option?

Anyways, I think looking at the demos is the best solution. I dont trust battleeye since its known that there have been shitloads of bugs in previous versions/anti-hack systems of soldat.

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DragonSlayer
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:59 pm Reply with quote
Administrator Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 1114 Location: Finland
Quote:
It was the same server though (U13), which is actually updated by flieslikeabrick only. Im pretty sure he either updated all his servers or none. Is Battleeye disabled a soldat.ini option?

Yes, you can disable it in the .ini file. And I'm 100% sure it's either that or server not being the newest one. In this case, it was probably disabled in the .ini file.

Anyway, I'm fine with watching demos. But keep in mind that BE is not developed by MM like the previous anti-hack systems, so it's unfair to have prejudice against it solely for that reason. As far as I know, BE works fine with the other games it's used for.

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